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I'm really not getting how this is a question under debate at all.

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American Christians have a vendetta out over gay marriage being an offense to God when realistically, according to Christian doctrine, they should be railing against non-Christians being allowed to marry with exactly as much fervor.

It's partly about that, but I don't want this turning into a gay marriage debate, because it's not supposed to be.

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American Christians have a vendetta out over gay marriage being an offense to God when realistically, according to Christian doctrine, they should be railing against non-Christians being allowed to marry with exactly as much fervor.

It's partly about that, but I don't want this turning into a gay marriage debate, because it's not supposed to be.

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but you're not talking about Christian marriage, you're talking about secularized marriage ceremonies - who has a problem with gay civil partnerships?

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- لورين

Love, all alike, no season knows nor clime,
Nor hours, days, months, which are the rags of time.

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but you're not talking about Christian marriage, you're talking about secularized marriage ceremonies - who has a problem with gay civil partnerships?

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More than a good half of my countrymen (I'm American, btw).

Nobody gives a damn that any Hindu, Muslim or Atheist off the street can marry a woman legally, but two men or two women and suddenly God's got a stake in the issue?

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but you're not talking about Christian marriage, you're talking about secularized marriage ceremonies - who has a problem with gay civil partnerships?

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Christians.  They say if we do that over here it'll open the door to gay marriages.

But more on topic...Don't they think all non-christians going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity anyway?  What does it matter if they're having sex or not?

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MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK
MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK
MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK
MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK

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Quote: from theboxman at 2:34 pm on July 14, 2008

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marriage is not a Christian only covenant. There is the flaw in your thinking

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Are you speaking from your godless opinions or from a Christian perspective?

Obviously other cultures and religions have marriage. That's irrelevant.

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The basis of the statement was if marriage is a Christian not secular arragement.  Because many of the traditions present in Christian religion where adopted from other religions and the point is this is a religious not social institution then those that married outside the christian faith would not be committing premartial sex because they are married in the eyes of god.

Chrsitianity is the late comer to the religious world not the other way around

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bums, hobos, and panhandlers -
true stories from the street on www.street-people.com

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More than a good half of my countrymen (I'm American, btw).

Nobody gives a damn that any Hindu, Muslim or Atheist off the street can marry a woman legally, but two men or two women and suddenly God's got a stake in the issue?

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no, no, fundamentalist americans have a problem with gay marriage within the CHRISTIAN Church.

in your second paragraph, you are confusing "marriage" with "Christian marriage". I'm sure a fundamentalist christian would have as much of a problem with a Hindu couple wanting to marry within the Christian Church without conversion (an unlikely situation, but your comparison), too.

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- لورين

Love, all alike, no season knows nor clime,
Nor hours, days, months, which are the rags of time.

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But more on topic...Don't they think all non-christians going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity anyway?  What does it matter if they're having sex or not?

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I've got the feeling that most (American) Christians are under the impression that civil, legal, secular marriage and a Christian commitment are somehow the same thing, which is why they're so hell-bent on denying it to gays but don't even think that straight non-Christians are living in sin just as horrible.

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Quote: from Shaknbake at 10:49 pm on July 14, 2008

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 More than a good half of my countrymen (I'm American, btw).  

 Nobody gives a damn that any Hindu, Muslim or Atheist off the street can marry a woman legally, but two men or two women and suddenly God's got a stake in the issue?

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no, no, fundamentalist americans have a problem with gay marriage within the CHRISTIAN Church.  

in your second paragraph, you are confusing "marriage" with "Christian marriage". I'm sure a fundamentalist christian would have as much of a problem with a Hindu couple wanting to marry within the Christian Church without conversion (an unlikely situation, but your comparison), too.

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I think you are confused.  If your statement where true then Christians would be fine with gay marriage as they could reserve the right not to have people marry in their church.  But they are against any kind of gay marriage.

Which realize 50% of marriages fail in this country so why not let gay people marry they deserve to suffer just like the rest of us


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bums, hobos, and panhandlers -
true stories from the street on www.street-people.com

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no, no, fundamentalist americans have a problem with gay marriage within the CHRISTIAN Church.

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And here's an Anglaise lecturing me on what the issue is across the Atlantic. No. Those rallying against gay marriage are not uniformly contesting the idea that gays should be married in church, but that the government should offer them marriage in a legal context at all. It is an issue in their minds, that legal and Christian marriage is the same, not in mine.  

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The basis of the statement was if marriage is a Christian not secular arragement.  Because many of the traditions present in Christian religion where adopted from other religions and the point is this is a religious not social institution then those that married outside the christian faith would not be committing premartial sex because they are married in the eyes of god.
Chrsitianity is the late comer to the religious world not the other way around

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Christianity does not acknowledge the validity of other religious traditions (with the occasional exception of Judaism). If you're not Christian, you can't be married in Jehovah's mind, even if Christians adopted marital ceremonies from earlier groups.

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Quote: from theboxman at 2:52 pm on July 14, 2008

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The basis of the statement was if marriage is a Christian not secular arragement. Because many of the traditions present in Christian religion where adopted from other religions and the point is this is a religious not social institution then those that married outside the christian faith would not be committing premartial sex because they are married in the eyes of god.  
Chrsitianity is the late comer to the religious world not the other way around

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Christianity does not acknowledge the validity of other religious traditions (with the occasional exception of Judaism). If you're not Christian, you can't be married in Jehovah's mind, even if Christians adopted marital ceremonies from earlier groups.

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But god recognizes the other religions and it is his opinion that counts

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bums, hobos, and panhandlers -
true stories from the street on www.street-people.com

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And here's an Anglaise lecturing me on what the issue is across the Atlantic. No.

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my nationality prevents me from getting involved in this discussion? what bollocks, this is an issue affecting everyone worldwide, just because I'm not American doesn't mean I'm ignorant to American issues. What a weak argument.

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Those rallying against gay marriage are not uniformly contesting the idea that gays should be married in church, but that the government should offer them marriage in a legal context at all. It is an issue in their minds, that legal and Christian marriage is the same, not in mine.

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why are you getting this information from? In a previous post you said, "I've got the feeling that most (American) Christians are under the impression that civil, legal, secular marriage and a Christian commitment are somehow the same things"

forgive me if I don't think your "feeling" about other people's "impressions" is that much unshakeable evidence.

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- لورين

Love, all alike, no season knows nor clime,
Nor hours, days, months, which are the rags of time.

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But god recognizes the other religions and it is his opinion that counts

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It's good to know you're Jehovah's personal mouthpiece. This is about Jehovah, the Christian god, and not some abstract god you invented in your own mind.

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I think you are confused. If your statement where true then Christians would be fine with gay marriage as they could reserve the right not to have people marry in their church. But they are against any kind of gay marriage.

Which realize 50% of marriages fail in this country so why not let gay people marry they deserve to suffer just like the rest of us

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the issue with gay marriage is that Christian marriage, as defined by Christian doctrine (in some interpretations) limits the union to one man and one woman. but a marriage outside of the Christian Church isn't under the jurisdiction of this doctrine so how can anyone have a logical problem with it?

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- لورين

Love, all alike, no season knows nor clime,
Nor hours, days, months, which are the rags of time.

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my nationality prevents me from getting involved in this discussion? what bollocks, this is an issue affecting everyone worldwide, just because I'm not American doesn't mean I'm ignorant to American issues. What a weak argument.

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You mustn't spend a lot of time listening to American voices on the issue then, because it is not solely fundamentalists and not solely Christians or the religious who oppose gay marriage. The most vocal and influential movements contre do not make a distinction between religious and legal marriage. This fact is self evident in listening to them speak.  

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why are you getting this information from? In a previous post you said, "I've got the feeling that most (American) Christians are under the impression that civil, legal, secular marriage and a Christian commitment are somehow the same things"
forgive me if I don't think your "feeling" about other people's "impressions" is that much unshakeable evidence.

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Listening to the statements of those who oppose homosexual marriage. They make no distinction between legal marriage in America and Christian traditional marriage. I use the word feeling lightly. I know that that's how these people feel; you can see it clearly in any debate on gay marriage, here or elsewhere.

I do not know the situation in England, but in the US the sentiment is universally anti gay-marriage, and not anti gay-marriage in a Christian context/by Christian ceremony.

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