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It's not so much that Democrats support killing babies. It's more about the choice that abortion represents. The issue of abortion, to Democrats, isn't so much about killing the babies vs. not killing the babies as it is about whether or not women have the right to choose what they want to do with their bodies. It's the principle of the thing.

Of course, the whole issue of ending an innocent life comes into play with the moral aspect of it- which they certainly don't ignore. Nobody likes abortion. But most supporters of abortion see its legality as a necessary evil. Legal or not, women who want abortions will find ways to get them. It's like anything else illegal- drugs, underage drinking, etc. Does having a drinking age of 21 stop teenagers from drinking? Of course not. Better to have it done in a safe medical setting than try to get it done underground somewhere, right?

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Kinda like when a man beats his wife?  It isn't about beating her, but about knowing that if you needed to you could?  

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whoisabs i'm not sure
Guess who's back?

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Thing is, Abs is right .

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you EVER think abs is wrong ever?

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Good god Jake, it was saying he was right on that specific point and that it's worth considering when thinking about Fair Tax.

Apparently you don't read around a whole lot, though:

http://www.golivewire.com/forums/peer-yaiisni-support-oa.html#40

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how the federal income tax makes it to where the wealthy pay a LOWER tax than the working class?

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1. Some wealthy people have a lot of asset but NO income! Like heirs and heiresses. They can live on their rich fat ass and pay NO income taxes.

Poor working ppl have to pay taxes because they NEED the paycheck.

2. Some rich ppl hide their real income behind tax shelters and put their money overseas in places where they dont pay taxes or very very low tax.

Poor ppl dont have that,

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/06/09/getting-billionaires-to-pay-more-taxes/

Post edited at 1:44 am on Sep. 5, 2008 by jakelong

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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Quote: from Bud2400 at 1:23 am on Sep. 5, 2008

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Thing is, Abs is right .

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you EVER think abs is wrong ever?

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Abs is a troll. Bud commits.

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Apparently you don't read around a whole lot, though:

http://www.golivewire.com/forums/peer-yaiisni-support-oa.html#40

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Abs is a troll. Bud commits.

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Texas Taxes Hit Poor & Middle Class Far
Harder than the Wealthy

Low- and middle-income families in Texas pay a far higher share of their income in state and local taxes than do the richest families in Texas, according to a new study by the Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy.

State and local governments are being called upon to take on more and more responsibilities, said Robert S. McIntyre, ITEP's tax policy director and lead author of the study, titled Who Pays? A Distributional Analysis of the Tax Systems in All 50 States. Unfortunately, when it comes to paying for services, Texas has a very unfair tax system.
Texas's Tax Code: Soak the Poor and Middle Class, Spare the Wealthy When all Texas taxes are totaled up, the study found that:

# The state and local tax rate on the best off one percent of Texas taxpayers-with average incomes of over $1million-is 3.5% before accounting for the tax savings from federal itemized deductions. After the federal offset, the effective tax rate is a mere 3.2%.

# The average tax rate on families in the middle of the income distribution - those earning between $25,000 and $40,000 -is 8.3% before the federal offset and 8.2% after, more than double the effective rate the richest pay.

# But the tax rate on the poorest Texas families-those earning less than $15,000 -is the highest of all. At 11.4% it is over three times the rate on the very wealthy.

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http://www.itepnet.org/wp2000/tx%20pr.pdf

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"Everyone helpin' each other whenever they can we makin' it happen, from nothin' to somethin'
That's how we be survivin'" - BEP

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Heres another one from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy

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Texas Taxes Hit Poor & Middle Class Far
Harder than the Wealthy  

Low- and middle-income families in Texas pay a far higher share of their income in state and local taxes than do the richest families in Texas, according to a new study by the Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy.

State and local governments are being called upon to take on more and more responsibilities, said Robert S. McIntyre, ITEP's tax policy director and lead author of the study, titled Who Pays? A Distributional Analysis of the Tax Systems in All 50 States. Unfortunately, when it comes to paying for services, Texas has a very unfair tax system.
Texas's Tax Code: Soak the Poor and Middle Class, Spare the Wealthy When all Texas taxes are totaled up, the study found that:

# The state and local tax rate on the best off one percent of Texas taxpayers-with average incomes of over $1million-is 3.5% before accounting for the tax savings from federal itemized deductions. After the federal offset, the effective tax rate is a mere 3.2%.

# The average tax rate on families in the middle of the income distribution - those earning between $25,000 and $40,000 -is 8.3% before the federal offset and 8.2% after, more than double the effective rate the richest pay.

# But the tax rate on the poorest Texas families-those earning less than $15,000 -is the highest of all. At 11.4% it is over three times the rate on the very wealthy.

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http://www.itepnet.org/wp2000/tx%20pr.pdf

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Goes back to what I said

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1. Some wealthy people have a lot of asset but NO income! Like heirs and heiresses. They can live on their rich fat ass and pay NO income taxes.

Poor working ppl have to pay taxes because they NEED the paycheck.

2. Some rich ppl hide their real income behind tax shelters and put their money overseas in places where they dont pay taxes or very very low tax.

Poor ppl dont have that,

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That WHY the poor shrea a greater part of the tax.  

Goes back to what I said

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1. Some wealthy people have a lot of asset but NO income! Like heirs and heiresses. They can live on their rich fat ass and pay NO income taxes.  

Poor working ppl have to pay taxes because they NEED the paycheck.  

2. Some rich ppl hide their real income behind tax shelters and put their money overseas in places where they dont pay taxes or very very low tax.  

Poor ppl dont have that,  

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Quote: from The Raven at 3:33 pm on Sep. 3, 2008

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Why is it that you are so closed-minded? Why is it that you can't accept other people's views? Why is it that you are so annoying?

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I;m not close minded, I listen. I asked a question. Why is it you can't answer? Why do you immediately jump to personal attacks?

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Personal attacks and threats are the only things liberals are good at.

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But you're wrong about who pays the most taxes.  

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Quote: from prisoner of hss at 10:40 pm on Sep. 4, 2008

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Wouldn't the online thing only work for things like ebay? And large scale retailers are still forced to charge it.

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Basically, though it really depends on the state and the company. In my state, I'm charged sales tax on everything I buy from Amazon.com (although bear in mind that Amazon is also based in my state). Basically any online retailer with a store or anything in a state can be charged sales tax for whatever residents of that state it sells to by said state. So you have a Barnes & Noble store in New Jersey, correct? If New Jersey really pushed it, it could force sales tax on all online transaction with Barnes & Noble to you. For the most part, this would basically cover the bulk of all retailers in the US, and since this sales tax would be national, the retailer would only need to have something in the US.

Thing is, Abs is right - with such a huge sales tax, people will do what they can to find ways to avoid paying it. Generally speaking, they'll most likely use Ebay and Craigslist a lot more, or they'll buy from retailers not in the US and pay the extra money to have it shipped to them, and if it's cheaper, they'll do it.

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You usually get better service and less possibility of being screwed over, too.

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Quote from barnabas at 1:00 am on Dec. 4, 2008
doommaker was a very helpful member,
until he went crazy,
and we were left with you.